I have been reading a fascinating book by Nickie Roberts, a UK ex-prostitute, called `Whores in History`, & thought you may be interested also in this para:
`The United nations figure that women do two thirds of the worlds work & recieve 10% of the worlds income & own 1% of the worlds assets; this spells out the truth about prostitution.
Women work at least twice as hard as men, get much less income; therefore we are the sellers to men who are the buyers.
This shows the impossibility of eradicating prostitution. Every attempt to do so by absolutists monarchies, moral vigilantes & police states have met with failure, there are simply too many positive factors motivating women to sell sex: compelling reasons for economic survival & personal independence above all, as the above testifies.
In light of this to debate the morality of prostitution is meaningless when the fundemantal issue of womens poverty is not addressed; & yet this is what has happened over the years.
Commentators & moralists of all persuations have simpkly by-passed economics & focued instead on womens supposed sexual immorality as an underlaying factor which disposes them to prostitution. But in a society which is dominated by the marketplace & which the vast majority of people have to sell their labour in order to survive, it is inevitable that some women-& men-will continue to provide sexual services.
legislation against the sex trade historically go hand in hand with intolerance of sexual freedom in general & womens sexual freedom in particular. Whores have always been prime targets of this repression. The whore is seen as dangerously free: her financial & sexual autonomy strikes at the very roots of patriarchy, threatening the interests of male moralists & legislators, some of whom are her best customers. And the whore if free in the sense she does not bind her sexuality to any one man; on the contrary, she openly challenges the notion of female monogamy. many women identify & recognise their own acive sexuality as `whorish` in their fantasies; but dare not identify with prostitutes publicly shows the extent to which this last, unexplored aspect of sexuality has yet to come out of the closet.`
`The United nations figure that women do two thirds of the worlds work & recieve 10% of the worlds income & own 1% of the worlds assets; this spells out the truth about prostitution.
Women work at least twice as hard as men, get much less income; therefore we are the sellers to men who are the buyers.
This shows the impossibility of eradicating prostitution. Every attempt to do so by absolutists monarchies, moral vigilantes & police states have met with failure, there are simply too many positive factors motivating women to sell sex: compelling reasons for economic survival & personal independence above all, as the above testifies.
In light of this to debate the morality of prostitution is meaningless when the fundemantal issue of womens poverty is not addressed; & yet this is what has happened over the years.
Commentators & moralists of all persuations have simpkly by-passed economics & focued instead on womens supposed sexual immorality as an underlaying factor which disposes them to prostitution. But in a society which is dominated by the marketplace & which the vast majority of people have to sell their labour in order to survive, it is inevitable that some women-& men-will continue to provide sexual services.
legislation against the sex trade historically go hand in hand with intolerance of sexual freedom in general & womens sexual freedom in particular. Whores have always been prime targets of this repression. The whore is seen as dangerously free: her financial & sexual autonomy strikes at the very roots of patriarchy, threatening the interests of male moralists & legislators, some of whom are her best customers. And the whore if free in the sense she does not bind her sexuality to any one man; on the contrary, she openly challenges the notion of female monogamy. many women identify & recognise their own acive sexuality as `whorish` in their fantasies; but dare not identify with prostitutes publicly shows the extent to which this last, unexplored aspect of sexuality has yet to come out of the closet.`
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United Kingdom
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Re: Whores in society.
Wed, April 19, 2006 - 2:26 PMAssuming that your statistics are correct world wide, wouldn't it be a fair statement that women in western industrialized countries would be less prone to poverty, and therefore, under the "poverty results in prostitution" hypotheses, less prone to engage in prostitution? How does one explain the interest in prostitution by middle class women, some who attend whore college, who indulge in the profession. I do not really think that it is patriarchy that demonizes prostitutes. I personally believe that the biggest foes of whoredom, are women themselves who see the easy availability of sex to men as a threat to the value of their sexuality. That is why there are so many prostitutes are lesbians, because they are not threatened by easy access to sex by men, because they don't want relationships with men. -
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Re: Whores in society.
Sun, April 23, 2006 - 10:55 AMI wonder about those things too. It always really bothers me when stats about sex workers only talk about poor sex workers or those living in poverty. And what about sex workers who aren't women? It is such a complex issue, and there are so many ways to approach and anaylze prostitution.
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Re: Whores in society.
Tue, April 25, 2006 - 12:04 PMNo matter what the society there is always the professions like prostitution which are on the very perimeters of social acceptability, & thus they too have their own layers & complexes...only part of the issues about prostitution is about poverty, because it is the poorest & the most vulnerable that are the most visible. prostitution is about sex, in one form or another, so of course it has its own dynamics set apart from poverty, but also includes it.
I believe patriarchy was the catalyst for demonisation & the whore stigma...but women also have added to its isolation, for fear of competition (in the broadest sense of survival instincts)...when a lot of extreme feminists came donw on prostitution, seeing sexworkers has instruments in the continious of patriarchy, & worse still trying to assume that prostitutes `did not see the dilemma they create`...this along with religious zealots like evangelistic movement in USA, has greatly contributed to the fact that it has been extremely difficult to get any respect due & de-criminalisation into action, for sexworkers.
I really hate these boxes we put ourselves into because it suit for identifacation purposes...like lesbians or bi`s....women like men are sexual creatures...we stay or expand as out adventures of life lead us..so really we are just sexual...& in prostitution you have more of an opportunity to express & find out different aspects of ourselves...so no, not all prostitutes are lesbians & not all lesbians are prostitutes....which ever way you turn it, sex refuses to be bound in..because it is nature & nature itself refuses any boundaries. -
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Re: Whores in society.
Tue, April 25, 2006 - 12:20 PMI don't think people put themselves into boxes the boxes and labels are thrust upon them. By the people that fear them for most hence the labels are demeaning. Or the words used as labels are changed from mere descriptions to mean something that is bad. How many white collar criminals still use the terms banker with impunity because the term has not been changed. Ye the term prostitute and whore have been given a bad meaning by society. But the the people that choose the profession and use them for themselves. -
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Re: Whores in society.
Wed, April 26, 2006 - 3:48 AMI agree bee....but sometimes people also look for the labels themselves 7 cast themselves as victims of life, would you agree?
ORIGINS OF THE WORD "WHORE"
The word whore is an English corruption of the Old Semitic word hor, meaning "hole," "cave," or "pit." Hor, in turn, is a derivation of the pre-Judaic Indo-European word, hora, meaning "hour." In fact, our modern English word "hour" derives from hora. In ancient Greece, for instance, prostitutes were called horae; in Persia, houri; in Babylon, harines; and in Israel, hors. What is the connection between "hour" and "whore"?
ANCIENT WHORES OF MYTH & LEGEND
Ancient cultures and civilizations practiced commercial and sacred prostitution, both necessary to the functioning and stability of patriarchal marriage (i.e., heterosexual monogamy) and of society itself. In ancient Egypt, whores were known as the "Ladies of the Hour," and in present day India, where prostitute-priestesses still dispense the grace of Goddess in Hindu temples, they are called "Devadasis." Early myths are rife with examples of the vital roles that whores once played in all human cultures. In Hindu mythology, sacred whores appear as the famed "Apsaras"; in Persian myth they are the celebrated "Peris"; and in Greek mythology they are known as the "Charites," or "Horae." In Roman myth they are referred to as the "Charis," or Three "Graces," a personification of the Great Triple Goddess (called Mari-Anna-Ishtar), whose sacred sign was the three-pointed star, a symbol of Goddess's magic (inverted) pubic triangle, out of which her procreative powers flow. -
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Re: Whores in society.
Wed, April 26, 2006 - 7:02 AMYes there are those that are looking to be the victim of life and label themselves. But I don't belive these are the word power brokers. They are often used as the examples by people that want to label the workers or people in that class. They point to the victims and extrapolate to the entire group of people in that profession or class.
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Re: Whores in society.
Thu, April 27, 2006 - 1:49 PM" I personally believe that the biggest foes of whoredom, are women themselves who see the easy availability of sex to men as a threat to the value of their sexuality. "
But doesn't the idea that women are valued for their sexuality come from the patriarchal system? If sexuality were not a large part of a woman's self worth and self identification, would she feel threatened by another woman's whoring? -
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Re: Whores in society.
Tue, May 2, 2006 - 4:46 AMI believe its both...its like whats comes first, the chicken or the egg syndrome.
The value of womans sexuality comes from the `beginning` of prehistory...when women gave birth, seemingly, to the men, without their involvement...the aattachment to creation & the honour of it, was thus placed at womens feet....because women (seemingly) `created` alone...they too, had the task of death to deal with. Thats why in history women have had this association with birth-death...`we bore into this world...therefore we carry over into the next`.
The threat of women to anothers whoring, is plain & simple `competition`...albeit sub-conscious at times...the same rules for men..it is natures aspect of survival at its finest.
Ancient Whores gave up the energy of birthing, this was part of the beginnings of patriarchy...few whores had children but wives did....an whores energy was not interrupted by the birth process, whilst the wives energies were comsumed by nurture to their children.
thus the roots of division from good girls to bad girls has evolevd, created by mankind & supported by a divide in womankind....so in effect you have three-quarters of humankind against the quarter of womankind who represent symbolically the Sacred Whore, thus the whore stigma was born.
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